On the Gist, dominating the streets with compassion.

In the interview, John Pfaff, professor of law and criminology at Fordham University and author of Locked In: The True Causes of Mass Incarceration-and How to Achieve Real Reform, joins Mike to talk about police reformation, and why politicians touting low crime under their watches could lead to more dysfunction. As one of the foremost experts on incarceration in America, Pfaff argues that we need to rethink how the system and budgets are organized.

In the spiel, Christopher Columbus and his mixed legacy.

Email us at thegist@slate.com

Podcast production by Daniel Schroeder and Margaret Kelley.

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