On the Gist, a Karl Rove drive-by.

In the interview, Dan Heath is here to talk about his new book Upstream: How to Solve Problems Before They Happen. He and Mike discuss the idea of upstreaming, looking behind problems to find alternative solutions, and how we need to recalibrate so successfully predicting and preventing disaster becomes the goal.

In the spiel, In the spiel, framings and shadings: the meaning of mobilization in 2020.

Email us at thegist@slate.com

Podcast production by Daniel Schroeder and Margaret Kelley.

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