We often suppose that wars are fought over things like resources, border disputes, and ideologies. My guest calls this "the spreadsheet approach to war" and argues that, in reality, such factors only come in as justifications for the much deeper drives at play.

Mike Martin is a Senior Visiting Fellow in the Department of War Studies, King's College London and the author of Why We FightToday on the show, he draws on his background in biology and experience serving in the British army to offer an explanation as to why individuals and nation-states go to war. Mike argues that there are two fundamental impulses behind the drive to war: the drive for status and the drive for belonging. We discuss these motivations and how leaders and ideologies corral and amplify them. We end our conversation with how this view of war could prevent conflicts and allow them to be fought more successfully, and also be a lens for how to help men flourish in a healthy way.

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